The UMB Pulse Podcast
The University of Maryland, Baltimore (UMB) is working to strengthen social impact and galvanize innovation. This season of “The UMB Pulse” podcast is featuring stories about how UMB is taking creative action to overcome barriers and solve social problems. Be sure to tune in – new episodes drop on the FIRST FRIDAY of the month! “The UMB Pulse” is produced by the UMB Office of Communications and Public Affairs. Co-hosted by Charles Schelle, lead social media specialist and Dana Rampolla, director of integrated marketing.
The UMB Pulse Podcast
The Globe Less Traveled: A Journey with Robert E Morris, DDS ’69, MPH, FICD
University of Maryland School of Dentistry alumnus Robert E. Morris, DDS ’69, MPH, FICD, shares his extraordinary life story that spans continents, including his experiences treating villagers in Vietnam, building public health systems in Kuwait, and training oral health leaders in the Caribbean.
The recipient of a University of Maryland, Baltimore honorary Doctor of Public Service degree recounts his harrowing survival during the invasion of Kuwait, detailed in his book “120 Days in Deep Hiding: Outwitting the Iraqis in Occupied Kuwait.” He also discusses his philanthropic efforts with the Mai Tam House of Hope in Vietnam, which serves mothers and children affected by HIV/AIDS, and reflects on the Jesuit values that have guided his career.
Morris also wrote an autobiography, "The Life of My Choice: Tales of a Traveling Man."
00:00 Introduction to Dr. Robert E. Morris
02:27 Early Life and Education
05:39 Career Beginnings and Vietnam Experience
08:39 Global Health Leadership and Public Health
14:49 The Kuwait Invasion and Survival
26:59 Saddam Hussein's Announcement and Hostage Situation
27:30 Near-Plane Crash and Journey to Safety
28:52 Movie Offer and General Schwartzkoff's Invasion
29:17 Reunion at Andrews Air Force Base
31:33 Founding the Mai Tam House in Vietnam
34:50 Impact and Success of the Orphanage
41:29 Encouraging Future Generations in Dentistry
45:36 Lifelong Learning and Irish Studies
48:29 Publishing Books and Final Thoughts
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Charles, you know, one of the best things of hosting this podcast is getting to sit down with people whose lives kind of read like a novel.
Charles Schelle:That's right, Dana and today's guest is exactly that. His story spans continents, decades, and some of the most dramatic moments in modern history.
Dana Rampolla:Sure does. We're talking about Dr. Robert E. Morris. He's a 1969 graduate of the University of Maryland School of Dentistry, and one of this year's recipients of UMB's honorary doctor of public service degree. Now, you might hear us a couple of times, refer to ourselves as Maryland or University of Maryland during this program, and I just wanna remind you. This is coming to you from University of Maryland, Baltimore, also known as UMB,
Charles Schelle:His career has taken him from treating villagers in Vietnam to building public health systems in Kuwait to training the next generation of oral health leaders in the Caribbean and beyond.
Dana Rampolla:And along the way, he's faced life changing challenges, including surviving four months in hiding during the invasion of Kuwait, which he later wrote about in his book, 120 Days in Deep Hiding.
Charles Schelle:He's also a, a philanthropist who with his wife, co-founded the Mai Tam House of Hope in Vietnam. They serve mothers and children affected by, HIV and aids.
Dana Rampolla:And through it all, he's lived by the Jesuit values. They were instilled in him at Holy Cross up in Boston, and he carried this with him throughout his life, during his time at UMB and and beyond. And he reminds us that we all have to do hard things.
Charles Schelle:I think our listeners are going to find Robert's story inspiring and, and humbling a great person to talk to. So let's dive in and hear from this month's changemaker.
Jena Frick:You are listening to the heartbeat of the University of Maryland, Baltimore, the UMB Pulse.
Dana Rampolla:Dr. Morris, welcome. It's such a privilege to have you with us today.
Robert Morris:Thank you all too. Thank you for inviting me and giving me the opportunity to, discuss the many aspects of my career since I left the University of Maryland school of Dentistry. Yes. Thank you very much.
Dana Rampolla:Well, let's start at the beginning, shall we? Where did you, you mentioned the dental school. Where did you go to college? And how did those early experiences shape your philosophy of service?
Robert Morris:I went to college of the Holy Cross. That's in Worcester, Massachusetts. It's a Jesuit school, Catholic, of course. And they have a particular philosophy which we can discuss. It's to be in service to others, shall we say, loosely translated in order to be in service to God. So they didn't talk about that much way back when I graduated, it became much more prevalent in the 2000 let's say. With the new worldwide director, he thought the Jesuit should think that way. And so it's pushed very hard nowadays, but I absorbed it and I use it now in my life.
Dana Rampolla:And what a great motto to live by. You mentioned Holy Cross following. Holy Cross. What was your degree there? And then how did you wind up at University of Maryland, Baltimore?
Robert Morris:Well, my degree was in. Classics pre-med, so that's Latin and Greek and pre-meds. I avoided math 'cause they told me I was stupid. Jesus. But I was originally in, in a German track. I kinda, which leads into my career, I kind of looked at travel and diplomacy early on. It was a period of JFK, it was ahead of time in our lives. JFK was from Boston. Of course, I'm from Boston. And I thought that's a way I could be of service. It would be language and diplomacy abroad. I always thought about that, but it didn't work out that way. I changed into what they call classics pre-med, and that led me to the University of Maryland Dental School for different reasons, but I knew it was a good school. I also knew that it wouldn't bankrupt my parents. We had a big family. Dental school in the private schools like Tufts and Harvard were prohibitive as they are now. So in the end, I was very glad and happy to go to the University of Maryland School of Dentistry.
Dana Rampolla:And you got your DDS in 1969?
Robert Morris:Correct.
Dana Rampolla:How did your time at the School of Dentistry influenced your career?
Robert Morris:It's a good question. And it can be answered I think in two ways. My understanding of the school was that it was a good school to go to for clinical experience, clinical practice, and that held up true. I I was good enough in clinical dentistry. And that was all learned at Maryland. But later on I joined the faculty and I was exposed to, professor Ernie Moreland, PhD in education who was trying to move the dental school away from a sort of CD of Pat's lecturing system to a more scientifically based pedagogical approach to teaching. So I embraced that maybe more than anyone else I know in the school, and that led into. A consulting position with the World Health Organization in the Caribbean initially for two years and then it extended on for 10 years.
Charles Schelle:Dr. Morris, your career took you to, to Vietnam. Kuwait, Trinidad and Tobago and, and beyond. And, and. I do wanna ask you about, those experiences about, you know, what most shaped you as a leader in global health and dentistry, but you also told us beforehand you have something that you wanna share with us and read that helps , set the stage for that.
Robert Morris:Yes. It, it will help set the stage. So, thinking of my career I like to quote New England's favorite poet, Robert Frost. He wrote the poem, the Road Not Taken, beautiful poem. And here's a little short excerpt. I should be telling this with a sigh somewhere, ages and ages. Hence two roads diverged in the woods and I, I took the one less travel by and that has made all the difference. So I think that leads into my career trajectory.
Charles Schelle:Absolutely. So tell us a little bit about that road less traveled for you. Thinking about the, the places you've been and the things that you've experienced, what has shaped you? I mean there, there obviously is probably more than one area, one instance, but , what are some things that helped shaped you as a leader by, traveling across the world?
Robert Morris:Well, initially, I, I, I left Maryland with my degree and it was, it was a high, high time in a war of Vietnam. And I had two choices. Either try to get an internship or a residency. I wasn't ready for more study or go into the military service because you'd be drafted. If you didn't, you couldn't get out of it. Some people did. Nevermind, and so I picked to go in the United States Navy, the United States Navy serves the United States Marines. And shortly after I was outta dental school, I was in a jungle in Vietnam. And that was a shock in itself. But there was a idea, a concept to embrace the native people, the local people to convert their minds and hearts to democracy. And so. I took that upon myself to treat the local people in small villages in the central Highlands of Vietnam, which is around the Danang area, west of Danang the central Highlands. And it was particularly interesting'cause most of my patients with young, young children. So I appreciated it. It was a pleasure to say for me, but at the same time. It continued in my wife life and my last let's say career activity has brought me back to Vietnam and those intervening years, a lot of my work was with children. That was one of the things that influenced me.
Charles Schelle:What within that experience led you to really kind of commit yourself to international service?
Robert Morris:Yeah. I, again, I, I started out in my mind when I was young that I would like to travel and maybe get into, let's say the diplomatic call. That didn't happen, and then I found out. I could be in the World Health Organization and at the same time be a diplomat. We did have diplomatic passports and that is very difficult to stay with them. So when my 10 years came up, they said that's as long as you can stay. And I had to rethink how to continue what I was doing. And the way to do that, the way to continue is I then went to the Harvard School of Public Health and got a degree in public health. So. When I was at Maryland and when I was in Trinidad, the first project in Trinidad, it was mostly on an educational basis, training and educational advisors. When I went to Harvard, I then got my degree in public health and I switched to into international health policy and planning, and. That would free me up in a way from education, which I was in too long at that point. And that allowed me to continue my activities where at the time the Ministry of Health in Kuwait was searching for someone to run a program in Kuwait. And through my connections I was able to get that job, bring my family to Kuwait. A very interesting thing about that job is I reflected and I didn't know about it then. It was training Palestinians in the diaspora. So all my clients in this training program, which is to bring these Palestinians up to an international level of skills, because in those days, they could only go to questionable schools such as in Afghanistan, Pakistan, et cetera, Bulgaria. The Kuwaiti would not accept them. They were residents, but they wouldn't accept them in to the government service unless they were upgraded. So that was the idea. Upgrade them. And that went on only for three years because the war in Kuwait hit. And so the project, the building, the people all disappeared. And in truth, I've never seen those people ever again. I was just thinking about that today. I don't know where they are. I don't know if they're in Gaza. I have no idea where they are, but it's interesting. That was part of my career.
Charles Schelle:Right. And, and we'll dive deeper into that experience with Kuwait.'cause it, it's, it's a very fascinating time in your life. But I want to kind of jump back a little bit. You often describe a phone call in the South American jungle, a as an epiphany moment. What happened with that phone call and how did it change your direction?
Robert Morris:Yeah. I was thinking about that and I rethink it as I was getting ready for this. There were certain things said to me over the years that, made an impression on me. Sometimes people ask you, who was your mentor? I, I kind of say I don't, I don't have a mentor. I just was doing what I was doing. There was one person that affected me and he was a red Face South Boston Irishman by the name of John Golden. He was a Jesuit. Studied at Holy Cross, entered the US Navy during World War II, was a chaplain in the Pacific, and then he went on to be a missionary in Jamaica. Then he went on to Fairfield to teach philosophy or theology. But he was my uncle and I thought he was the Renaissance man, you know, with that experience. And he, I said, someday I'll do something like him, but. Again, not too late. In my experience in Trinidad, we had a, a, a visit by the director General of WHO, which was unusual because it was a small island. There were not too many consultants, but there were enough of us and his name was Mah. And he came out of a missionary experience in China where he grew up, where his parents were missionaries, health missionaries. And he arguably was the best director in WHO. And he was the driving force for health for all 2000. Of course, we're well past that now, but he came and visited us and he had us all around the table and he said that, just remember that you're just trying to make a more socially decent society. And I thought that was always words to live by. If you're just trying to do that, you might be okay. But then in Guyana, I got this strange call from. A Jesuit. The Jesuits have influenced me. They educated, they influenced my thought. And it was from Peter Mada Jesuit in Puna, Puna, India had studied at Boston College theology, friend of my mother's, my mother had died at that point and he called me out of the blue, which was extraordinary 'cause I was in the jungle. I don't even know if how the phone was working or how the connection was made. And we chitchatted made a little social talk. And finally he said to me, what are you doing for God today? And that really irritated me'cause I was in the middle of the jungle sweating with rats around my feet and I said, I'm working. So I cogitated over that for a fair amount of time and then I decided that is what I would do for my experience. I would just work. In order to be in service to others, to be in service to God. And that's the Jesuit model in Latin arm, major de Gloria, and I would decide, I decided I would just do that and give my knowledge and experience. So much of it learned at the University of Maryland in clinical dentistry and in education. I would do that. Give it and make it available to anyone who wanted my help, and that's how I continue my service right up to today.
Charles Schelle:You've absolutely have been having serving others throughout your, your career and, and your life. With everything that we've read and, and heard so far, and we wanna hop back across the globe where there is the intersection of, of a lot of religions in the Middle East and go back to Kuwait and help tell the listeners what happened there? This was an especially difficult chapter for you, for your wife and your children, and share about that experience, how that affected you and your family involving the capture and fear that, that you wind up writing about in your book 120 Days in Deep Hiding.
Robert Morris:When I was doing my work, even though. I tell you, I'm in the jungles of South America. We didn't consider that risky at all, but we got to Kuwait. And Kuwait was invaded by the forces of Saddam Hussein, August the second, I believe, 1990. Kuwait isn't just, or wasn't just a Banana Republic, it has a long history. It exists on the Dutch maps of the time, 1750, that type of thing. Where of course Iraq didn't exist. Iraq was Mesopotamia. Kuwait was Kuwait. So the invasion took place. My family was not there. My family was on vacation'cause it was in the summer. So we had two children. My wife, they were in Boston and they went to my wife's native Trinidad. They were in vacationing in Trinidad. And August the second, an explosion took place just out of the house. And that was the beginning of 120 day, 130 days of pure hell, A rollercoaster emotions up and down constantly. People cheating on you. People stealing money people getting you in trouble. By laziness, by thinking they were heroic figures. All of us were not heroic. So over a couple of days we were in hiding in our apartment right downtown. The way we knew an invasion took place is a bomb went off right outside my house. In the cemetery across the street and we could see the crater and we were up on about the 13th floor of this apartment building living. And we could look out the windows and we could see in the distance soldiers walking on the ring roads. But we have initially thought it was a coup. Then we realized talking a couple days before that Hussein was gonna invade. So the invasion took place. And then my family learned of it, and mostly they said, just don't go anywhere, just stay where you are. Well, I went out after about the third day and I was captured, and I became a prisoner. And then you could say, I'm a prisoner of war. Or you could say I'm a hostage. A couple of us managed to convince our captors that we were diplomats. Now, I had the diplomatic passport from the UN from before, but it was out of date. I had already changed the date. They told me later. It was very sloppy work. I wouldn't make a good detective. And we convinced them and they let us go. There was about four of us. So then we went into hiding again. And then as I said in my book, I went into deep hiding and deep hiding was taking you off the grid, so to speak. Not using the phone, not bathing, not eating in the daytime, not turning the shower on, not flushing the toilets because it could be heard all through this empty apartment building, which is about 900 apartments. Disconnect in the elevators so the soldiers wouldn't walk up 13 floors to find us. All this type of thing. But then bandits roamed through the building at night trying to break in, trying to break into my apartment and all that. But we had put extra locks on the doors and we put peep holes. There weren't any peep holes We put peep poles so we could see out, but we made the peep holes smaller than normal so they could not even pick up our, our eyeball at the peep hole. And that worked. That worked for keeping us safe. Meanwhile my family had to deal with this back home, and particularly my older daughter was very traumatized. She was 11 years old, and of course, she just didn't know what was happening. And my wife didn't know what would happen. As we talked before, they just didn't know if I was coming home. And there was slight communication with the State Department, but certainly not enough. And my family was running around trying to get Voice of America into Kuwait, if you can believe it. In those days, Voice of America could not reach Kuwait. The younger daughter who was only four just said not to worry because he'll be home for Christmas. Daddy will be home for Christmas. And in fact, after all this hiding becoming a international hostage sending tapes, we sent tapes out to ABC, NBC, BBC, Canadian News broadcast, the tapes right after BBC broadcast them. And at that point, the reporters tracked the tapes to my wife. Mm-hmm. Who didn't want them naming any names because Iraqis would be watching the tapes at the same time. But basically we were saying that if George Bush at that time doesn't do anything will starve to death. Now my sister, my older sister, rest in peace, she had already written me off. She, she had figured I'd never come home, so she prayed. And then we came home on a Catholic anniversary, December the 10th. We arrived back in Boston. The reason we arrived was that Saddam Hussein, as far as I know, Saddam Hussein let the hostages go and truth, there were 9,000 hostages of so many nationalities there. There were about 250 American hostages that left the country at the same time I did on a Pan-American Chartered flight. Other hostages that were wises of Kuwaiti, they were Americans, but wise of Kuwaiti, didn't leave the country. They stayed there. But the trauma persists. Anyone will tell you that, post-traumatic stress goes on for a long, long time.
Dana Rampolla:How, how did you get the message that it was safe to leave?
Robert Morris:That's a good question. In order to make it safe for me, I had to change my nationality on paper. So I tried with the UN passport that was out of date. I took my US passport and I hit it up in the air conditioning in the ceiling, figuring no one would look up there. I, so I needed a document and for many years I kept this secret, but time has passed. So I would communicate short messages through the US Embassy to my family. Saying I had to using code words. I had to change my nationality because the Americans the British and maybe the Canadians were being targeted for capture by Saddam Hussein to be used as hostages. So we had to have another nationality. And I sent this message, and the message was, tell my wife. I want to be on the green line. Now, if you're familiar with Boston, the Green Line is a trolley out to the med school, out to all the hospitals and all that out to Newton. And I said, I wanna be on the green line saying they will understand I want an Irish passport. Wow. My grandfather on my mother's side had come over. So I was still eligible. My father's parents, they were Irish, but that was, I was no longer eligible there. And I had been trying for years to get the passport just to have it in my pocket. And I could never prove that my grandfather was Irish, but everyone knew it and I couldn't prove it. Long history there. And I said I gotta have a document. And so. My brother-in-law understood the code where the green line, he says he wants an Irish document. He wants an Irish passport in his pocket. So as I said, this has not been spread wide and far. It's not in the books. So they approached the former Senator, John Kerry from Massachusetts and he did it. He went to the Irish ambassador in Washington and said, you gotta give the man a passport.
Dana Rampolla:Wow.
Robert Morris:So a few weeks later, I think it was in November, this Irishman arrives at my door. He had been pre announced, he had been pre-checked, et cetera. So he is probably Irish Secret Service. His name was Seamus, for lack of a better word. And first thing he asked me, because I have a famous middle name. Is I, is your name really? Robert Emmett. And Robert Emmett is a famous hero and the Irish resistance heroic. His statue is on Massachusetts Avenue in Washington DC and he said, well, if your name is Robert Emett, you have to be Irish. And so he gave me the document. Now, it wasn't actually a passport, it's a laissez-passer. French, they say the right to pass. But that made me more secure. So at that same point that we're receiving this, the Irish government now had taken over with people like me and said, you have to come to Baghdad. So we said, well, how do we get to Baghdad? We don't even have any money. And they said, well, we, we'll get you the money, but you have to get on an airplane out this at at this Air Force base where they're running the commercial airplanes to Baghdad, which is probably an hour away by plane. So two of us went out there, the other fellow with me, he was kind of a sad sack. He had been drunk almost for three months, but nevermind. He, we go out together we act normal and we're about to get on the plane and the secret police called me over. I didn't know what was gonna happen and my friend had already gotten on the plane. I was off the plane, I had been pulled aside and he said, I wanna check your documents again. Something like that. He said, okay, go ahead. So we're now on the plane and we get to Baghdad and a week or two passes. We come up to early December or whatever and just out of the blue, we didn't know what we were gonna do. We knew the invasion was gonna take place by the US and we didn't wanna be in Baghdad. We wanted to be back in Kuwait thinking it would be safer. And just out of the blue. It came over maybe on BBC, that Saddam Hussein said, everyone is free. And when he said that there were about 9,000 hostages in the country from all kinds of nationalities, a lot of them, if you will, maids and servants and road workers that went there to make a living, to send their money back home to the Philippines or to India, et cetera. So, that was it. A lot of. Things went on between the time that was announced and we got on the plane. When we got on the plane, it was an Iraqi Airways plane to Frankfurt, Germany, and it came within about three seconds of crashing at the airport as we landed. And it's a long story. It's in the book the pilot from British Airways who landed in Kuwait in the middle of the war. A lawsuit has just been settled on that a couple months ago, He, he was sitting in front of me on the plane, so he was a 7 47 pilot. The plane was a 7 47 and he said that was the time between, it was obvious we were crashing to going back up because he came across the runway sideways. It took about seven seconds with this horrendous roar of the jets trying to get the plane up. And the pilot said to me, that was the longest seven seconds in his life. And he was, he was a 7 47 pilot. So we landed and then we waited one day and we took Pan-American Airlines. It was the last time I ever took Pan Am to Washington, DC to Andrews Air Force Base. And, and that, that is kind of the story.
Dana Rampolla:That's incredible. Sounds like this could be a whole movie.
Robert Morris:Mm-hmm.
Dana Rampolla:Well, that, that,
Robert Morris:sorry, sorry. It, it was offered to a movie. I already picked who I wanted to work Be Me. Oh, nice. And you know, in the United States, we go so fast, my lawyer wanted 50,000 to start the talks. They said we give 5,000. And by that time. General Schwartzkoff, if you remember Schwartzkoff.
Charles Schelle:Mm-hmm.
Robert Morris:Mm-hmm. Started the invasion of Iraq, so no one was interested in a movie any longer.
Charles Schelle:So you get to Andrew's Air Force base. What did it feel like touching down on American soil at that time?
Robert Morris:That was another interesting experience. My sister worked for Pan Am She got some tickets from my wife and two children to come down to meet me at Andrew's. And they knew when the flight was coming in and you know, in typical bureaucratic fashion, they tried to massage the arrival of us into some kind of everyone wave their flags and be happy, you know, we're all back. I am not sure if those bureaucrats in the State Department understood what we had been through, and we just wanted to get outta there. And so the relatives were all in the gym and they said, all right. First they kept us away from them, and then I said, that's it. I'm out. I'm going out. I'm in America. I'm going out. And so I just. Left this bureaucrat who was standing up there telling us, wait, wait, wait. I just left them and ran in and looked for my children and my wife and my dear wife. And there they were. And we just embraced for about 45 seconds, I picked up my little daughter who was four, and I'll always remember this. She had a tiny American flag in her hand. She was waving it under a basketball hoop, and I thought that was so American, so symbolic, and then all the reporters gathered around and all that. And then there were interviews for weeks on end with the news.
Dana Rampolla:Hmm. That's just an incredible story. Thank you for sharing it. And I feel like I can feel emotional just hearing you talk, especially about your children and your wife and being reunited with them. I think this reinforces what you said your mantra was or that you had learned. We all have to do hard things and these were certainly hard times. You know, many of us have never even heard about or known, so I hope our younger alumni appreciate you sharing such details about that story. Robert, let's pivot for a minute and talk a little bit about some of the great things that you have done. One in particular being the Mai Tam House in Vietnam that you and your wife founded. Can you share a little bit about what drove you to do that and how you've worked together and just what the goal of that was?
Robert Morris:Yes, of course we're discussing my career and uh, uh, the trajectory. Trajectory and the fact that I was involved in international health, if you will, international policy and education. And my work was population based, so to speak. It was never just seeing a patient, an ex patient, next patient. I didn't wanna do that. I didn't want to do clinical dentistry. I want to affect society to changing the population. The best I can and whatever the size the population is. So, I had finished up the work in Kuwait. We had done it very, very successfully a very, very successful program where all the Kuwaiti children from, let's say five to 12, were in a disease prevention program. That program developed into something equivalent to the Scandinavian Country's approach which put it on par with the northern countries of Europe, which were the gold standard in those days, and the best in what's called Southwest Asia, Kuwait and Southwest Asia. So the program finished up. It was time to go home. It was time to retire. My daughter was still young, the younger one, and my dear wife Jill, who made this journey with me she said, we gotta educate her. We gotta get her into high school and all that, and we gotta move her on. And I don't think it's time to be traipsing around the world. So I just accepted. I said, well, I'm at retirement age, let's do something else and we'll take care of our daughter. So. Somewhere at that point, about two years later again, I always had an affinity for Vietnam and the people I met there, I never considered them my enemy. I liked them. They caused me problems, of course, and it's in my book. But I liked them. They didn't hate me. I didn't hate them. So I thought I could get back there and bring some of my public health expertise through a project I would develop rather than some other people would develop. And at that point I had been communicating with, again, with Jesuit, Boston College. He was at Georgetown to GI Gii. He's now in Myanmar as an educational missionary. And I knew he had been going to Vietnam and I knew Vietnamese for visiting him at Boston College. I, I said, you know, I'm interested down the line of trying to find the health project that I could do simply and be involved in. And he just said, gimme the resume and. I did, and a while came, a while, went by and he he called me at one point and said, let's go out to dinner. He said, would you be willing to sponsor an orphanage? And Jill and I were together and I felt strangely, the sunset of our careers. It was a most fantastic offer. Whatever it meant to be able to help sponsor people who don't have any place to go. So the, it turned out it was an orphanage for HIV age children, and it was founded by a father John Schwa, who belongs to the order of St. Kalis, which is missionaries of the Affirm infirm from Italy. And they are religious people, but they're all health professionals, the the full range of health professions. And their main focus was in Italy with old age homes and bringing the agent through their end of life. But with the Italian health system, the public health system, the government took that over and then they would maybe stay there, but the government paid for everything. So they really didn't have that much to do. So over Vietnam, this young priest joined the order and then he became the leader. And I'd say, I'd say the first thing he did was to establish this orphanage. So what, after going over and meeting him, we agreed that we would provide, in the language of international development, we would provide. The seed money or the startup money for the orphanage. And then we would provide whatever public health experience we could provide, educational experience, et cetera. And so we did that. And for him, for the priest, he, he equates that, that Jill and I were the founders of the orphanage. And Jill and I say we're not the founders. He is, and it's 20 years this year. I was hoping he's coming next month. He's not. It's 20 years. It's been a fantastic experience. It is in my own mind. And others the best orphanage in Vietnam it's a full social service program. It also includes mothers with HIV. The infants are HIV positive, AIDS positive or liver. Affected by AIDS being that the brother or sister have aids and then the mothers who live have aids. And we have reached a thousand clients over the years. And just for this talk, I was doing a little data analysis and, and over 20 years, this is this year, 20 years, we've had a 1.7% mortality rate. Where the expected mortality rate in a group of children like that, children with age, but being treated would be up about five to 7%. And if the children weren't treated, the mortality rate is 35%.
Charles Schelle:Hmm.
Robert Morris:So the orphanage and Jill and I take No, no praise at all for it. The orphanage is highly successful and in my mind, the best in Vietnam. So. It was just wonderful. It came outta the blue and it made the sunset of our career, if you will, more rewarding than anything else.
Dana Rampolla:Do you feel like all of that work in some ways helped to de-stigmatize AIDS and HIV in those communities?
Robert Morris:That's what we've discussed in the last, several months. The last couple of years that I asked Father John twice, I asked him, why do we have less clients? He said, well, they're going back home and a lot of 'em are getting older and they're graduating and going to college. Some are going back home. He said, because we've talked to the people in Saigon, Ho Chi Minh City, it's called, and now they understand that the child is on one tablet a day. Can go to school, doesn't have to tell anyone. Teachers can keep their mouth shut, so to speak, and that's it. No one has to know anything. Or they can come home, the mother and father have died. They can come home and be with the extended family. And yes, and again, that's the way. Father Twy works. He's, he's we many people. And you, it is in the international literature. It's online. They call him a living saint. So he is, without a doubt, the most remarkable person I've ever met. So again, we were very lucky. We just fell upon it, so to speak, and we were able to give a little money to start it up.
Charles Schelle:You, you do a lot of great things with that. House in Vietnam and I, I saw, you set up ways for, for the mothers to, to earn income too, right? Like dressmaking, right?
Robert Morris:Yes. There was a talk as we went along where there were more mothers and how, how could the orphanage or the center, you know, allow them to be more prosperous in life?'cause they've probably lost their husband, they have no money and they're sick, but they're on medicine. And so different ideas came up and some things work, some things fail. I noted and the priest. Father had a flower farm not too far away. I said, why don't we do some of those high expensive flower arrangements, have them do flower arrangements, take 'em around to the embassies, the hotels, and all that. And that worked for a while, but they the orphanage found out that the driver. Taking the flowers around with stealing the money. So that's fair. It's, it happens. It always happens. And then they got into some dress making, which my wife is very familiar with, and they got some high end sewing machines from Japan. If you're into that business, those are high end and they were able to start making these wedding dresses. Which are very important in Vietnam during New Year's. New Year's is called te the Tet Holidays. So certain Tet holidays, everyone's getting married, who's gonna get married, so it's a good chance to charge a lot of money, so to speak. And do a beautiful dress. And they, the, the ladies, my wife who knows it, said they know what they're doing. So that was wonderful. Yes. That was one of the ways of making money. Yeah.
Charles Schelle:Yeah. That, that's fantastic. We've, we've only dived into a, a sliver of, of your career between all the tri triumphs and challenges and dangers that, that we've heard about. As you think about, talking to the, the next generations of healthcare and public service leaders, especially maybe those in dentistry who've seen what, what you've done. That your, your career as a dentist doesn't have to be confined to a chair and, and an office. It can be anywhere and you can do anything. So, like, what message do you want to leave with, with these young professionals and, and these students in dental school?
Robert Morris:Well, you know, I, I talked to the dean, Mark Reynolds, I, I talked to him about this when I received this honorary doctorate. And I kind of said, well, why me? And you know, he said, well, because you've shown that the field of dentistry is extraordinarily broad, if you will. It doesn't mean you have to sit in a private office work with two other people. You can look into many areas. And I think the dentists are doing that. I think they're not so much looking at what they can do abroad, but I would say that's not necessarily their fault. What I did, very few other people did. There were two or three of us out there for their whole career, so to speak that I ever met. And mostly they were, uh. with the group I'm working, and it might've been one or two other people, but I continued it. And so it's not an easy thing to advise people to do, but I think when I look at what the University of Maryland is doing is trying to extend itself internationally, I I, I praise that. And I, I asked Mark Reynolds, I said, I, I agree what you're doing and who's, who's, who's pushing it. And he said he is. And so, yeah. So maybe the students. Between what they see me doing and what the school and the university is pushing an international approach they'll look at that and realize there's a lot more than just staying, let's say in Maryland or staying in Texas. All that. You know, we talked a little bit, I don't wanna slip by, but how the school helped me on my first job, which was to go to Trinidad to develop this dental nursing school, this dental nursing concept, it was well known in, in British colonies and it was in New Zealand. It was founded in New Zealand, may, New Zealand, maybe 1916. So we applied that program in Trinidad and last year we had our 48th anniversary. So that program provided a new healthcare professionals that could treat children after two years of training in 13 countries of the Caribbean and Central America, and last year we had the 48th reunion of the group of the groups. And I would say with due respect that the UN doesn't have any other project that's lasted 48 years. So that was a success. Now it's winding down because people change opinions. New professionals come in, new ministers come into the health ministry. Why are we spending money there? And you have to have very strong advocates. So in most of the countries, it's slowing down, but it's still going in Trinidad.
Charles Schelle:Yeah, you're right. UMB still to this day does a lot with international education and providing students with opportunities abroad. So I actually wanna give a quick plug. The School of Social Work recently launched a podcast called Social Work is Everywhere, and you'll hear stories about all the different international research and education going on there. So, get out and see the world and, and, you know, do your thing. Essentially, UMB will will provide a way for that.
Robert Morris:Yeah, I, I did, I read about that and I was impressed. I, I'm, I'm very impressed with the University of Maryland, Baltimore, when I read, when I do read it the outreach that's going on. Yeah. Either locally or at a long distance. Yeah.
Dana Rampolla:Well, and also quite impressive. You've done all of these things in your life and, and you also continue to learn you're a lifelong learner. And I believe you told me you just recently got a postgraduate diploma in was it Irish studies?
Robert Morris:Yes. Yeah, that's right. So
Dana Rampolla:you still find time to do these things.
Robert Morris:I should have done it during COVID, but it wasn't there. So what happened was that. My relatives are from Ireland, my ancestors, I should say. And they came over, some of them just before the Irish famine, and some came over after the Irish family. But the ones that came over and Irish Island has a long history and a long reputation. They came over, and I say this with respect there were ref refugees in the country, if you will immigrants, and they all became doctors or pharmacists. After leaving Island, we just couldn't figure that out. How did they get into Harvard in 1850 as Irish Catholics? How did they ever do that? And I wanted to find out more about Island and more about my history because difficult to find all other documents are lost. And so I was looking at it for a course and. I couldn't get it in Boston. And they were all too expensive. They were at the full rate, and you had to take a master's or a PhD. I said, I don't wanna pay full rates anymore to have fun. And this course came up at the University of Galway, which was then the National University of Galway. Now it's the University of Galway. And the fees were very reasonable and it would be all online, a little bit of a challenge. It would be two years, it'd be equivalent to a master. It would be in Irish studies and it would be a survey course, and it was fantastic. In retrospect, it was wonderful. I enjoyed it so much. Again, what you said is part of lifelong learning. You have to be prepared to do it because. I was writing papers every week for two, two years. And my wife and I was playing Irish music too at the same time. My wife was very upset, although it's awfully beautiful. And so I got the degree and unfortunately, tragedy hit the family. My sister died when I was to get the diploma, so I couldn't go get it. I wanted to go get it 'cause I could go get a Guinness at the same time, you know? Right,
Dana Rampolla:right.
Robert Morris:And, always famous for drinking. I couldn't get it, so I told 'em I can't come. And I said, I just want to know one thing. Am I the oldest one in the class? They said, indeed, you are the oldest one in the class. So they said they want you to write an article about why you did this, and I think I told you the title was chasing Knowledge at the age of 81. And I'm waiting for them to publish that.
Dana Rampolla:That's wonderful. You are so inspirational and I really just appreciate hearing all of your, your stories and your wealth of knowledge and I look forward to getting your book. I did wanna, before we sign off, Robert, thank you again for being with us today and sharing your wisdom with the world. Tell us how can we get a copy? You have two books out there and how can we get a copy if we're interested?
Robert Morris:First, thank you so much for inviting me. I, I hope that somehow the students the new students there get a chance to think about some of these activities and that what I did can be an inspiration of sorts to them, to the students. I was hoping that at the gra at the graduation, that would've more conversations, the books you either. Write to Amazon or to through Amazon for the book called The Life of My Choice. And that is about what we're talking about. I made these choices in life and in the end I'm satisfied. So it's a biography from the beginning. And the second book is about the invasion of Kuwait being a hostage, and you and I talked about this, what does the word hostage mean? And people would say, well. No one had a gun on you all the time. They only had a gun on you for four days or three days. No one had a gun on you. But a hostage in international terms is someone who is not allowed to leave the place they're stuck in. So all these people in Kuwait were international hostages. According to international law. So that book, 120 Days in Deep Hiding How to Outwit with the Outwitting, the Iraqi army that is published by Xlibris. That's X-libris. No e-x. Xlibris.com. So you order directly from them. You just go online. You Google these and you should find them. I hope you do buy them. They're good. They should have been a movie once, but they're not. Well certainly
Dana Rampolla:would've been a good one.
Charles Schelle:Great. Fantastic. I'm glad you could share your story with us and thank you for joining us on the UMB Pulse.
Robert Morris:Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
Jena Frick:The UMB Pulse with Charles Schelle and Dana Rampolla is a UMB Office of Communications and Public Affairs production edited by Charles Schelle, marketing by Dana Rampolla
